Curse

Evilsod · Jun 14, 2007, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

They don't though. Paragons are extremely solid PVE class, the community just doesn't realise this because they are bad.

Skill like Defensive Anthem and They're On Fire are amazing in PVE. Paragons can currently make a teams defense retardedly good in PVP, and they can do exactly the same thing in PVP, while at the same time putting out decent damage.

When people bitch about mesmers being bad in PVE, it's acceptable, because they actually are trash in PVE, paragon's aren't, it's just too bad 96% of the people that play this game still fail after it's been out for 2 years.

We all know how useful Paragons can be in PvE... its just the useful builds for them are so insanely boring. PvE Paragons are either reduced to extremely boring spear chucking w/ GftE spam so they can use the energy attacks or resigned to Command/Motivation w/ Leadership to keep in Mending Refrain or something boring. Almost nobody wants to play them. They are purely for heros now. Morgahn doesn't complain about the fact all he gets to do day in day out is spam Motivation/Leadership skills till the cows come home.

When is this update suppose to go live? End of this weekend event?

The Great Al · Jun 14, 2007, 10:44 PM // 22:44

gaile said 'later in the week' on tuesday....I would assume that it has to be today...the major updates are almost always on or before thursday...I can't remember the last time there was a major friday or weekend update, I guess mostly because most of the programmers are home for the weekend, so they don't want to take a chance and release a buggy patch that close to the weekend. I still say it's today...don't forget, it's still not even 4:00 PM Anet time yet.

Sha Noran · Jun 14, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

lol, a mod needs to go /mo with Extinguish and kill this flame war. Roflcoptering your epeen gets you no where if all you do is obsmode and think that tells you enough about high end PvP to have a solid understanding of it. And no, Rank 9000 gvg is not high end PvP.

To the couple of people that semi-responded to me regarding my comments on Arcane Conundrum becoming better than Migraine with this update, you are almost certainly right that if all you could bring on your bar was one skill, then yes Migraine is better. However you have to understand that with this update, you can run Arcane Conundrum in combination with a different Elite and do the same job better. Shit, even Mantra of Recovery would be pretty sweet, but most likely you'd do a Mantra of Persistance with it to make the duration lengthy enough to cover the recharge. Toss in the buffed up Conjure Phantasm as a pressure/cover hex, and it's a fat bitch. Sig Humility, Ineptitude, Clumsiness, OSHI~, it's a build!

Please try to consider the broader profession and skill selection capabilities when comparing skills beyond "BUT BUT LOL IT'S SHORTER DURATION"

Taki · Jun 14, 2007, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Hopefully there's more updates to waiting in the wing to be rolled out right after this one is finalized. I'd like to think this is the beginning of the "more frequent" balances.

I also want to give a special thanks to all the posters who tested these changes before they were implemented. What would the world do without people like you...

Series · Jun 14, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Tobasco... calm down before they nerf you!!!

XvArchonvX · Jun 14, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

To the couple of people that semi-responded to me regarding my comments on Arcane Conundrum becoming better than Migraine with this update, you are almost certainly right that if all you could bring on your bar was one skill, then yes Migraine is better. However you have to understand that with this update, you can run Arcane Conundrum in combination with a different Elite and do the same job better. Shit, even Mantra of Recovery would be pretty sweet, but most likely you'd do a Mantra of Persistance with it to make the duration lengthy enough to cover the recharge. Toss in the buffed up Conjure Phantasm as a pressure/cover hex, and it's a fat bitch. Sig Humility, Ineptitude, Clumsiness, OSHI~, it's a build!

Migraine was inferior to Arcane Conundrum before and giving it a slight AoE property is completely inconsequential. If Cry of Frustration was an Illusion skill, it might be different, but it's not. Migraine still does the job of both pressure and shutdown while Conundrum is still only shutdown with a higher cost and recharge. Since when did casters ever ball up in (intelligent) PvP anyways? Even in PvE, enemies still spread out quite a bit more than they used to.

Miral · Jun 14, 2007, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

...Because you're using 5e spells. I wouldn't have to worry about e-management for a necro if all of my necro's skills were 5e as well.

Solo farming builds don't count.

Forgot to add that I actually look forward to the new SR change. It was annoying to have another enemy die just under 5 seconds. 15 seconds will be much easier to track, and is more reliable. Of course, we'll have to wait and see.

Yeah that was the point, monk have powerful 5e spells O.O they're spammable too, unlike necro spells...
i guess solo farming builds don't count.... because they're just plain fubar altogether?
and yeah this is better than once every 5 seconds, but it definitely still needs some fixes.... the 3xSR cap instead of 3 activations cap being the most likely...

Lorekeeper · Jun 14, 2007, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsielschott

I don't care what guild they are from. If you have a problem beating a build you solve it by coming up with a better one, not telling a-net they suck and need to fix what they can't beat. That is how the game is played, ever changing and everyone is always getting better and things get more interesting.

So like I said earlier if they have a problem with it then quit playing or find a way around it. (because obviously there is one. If there wasn't, every guild would run hexes, and every match would be won by a hexes build)

ok im going to try put this as simple as possible.

the hex dominance took its tole on the health of gvg before the ATS were implemented. The length of time it took for the ATS to be implemented just perpetuated the dismal state of ladder based gvg. Hex builds did dominate even though you dont see this now... eF won their gold cape running a very very powerful version of the hex build which they had run throughout the season prior to the introduction of ATS.
The HAnD guild also rose to the top of the gvg ladder prior to ATS launch running a similiar hex build.

it is entirely possible to run a build that counters hexes, thats not the point. The point is... if i run a perfect counter to 1 particular build i expose myself to weakness against other builds. And this is build wars... the exact opposite of what pvp should be about. The outcome of a fight should not be decided upon ONLY by the 8 skills no your bar or the other 56 skills in the team, if this is how gw gvg works then you might aswell roll a dice at the start of the battle or play rock paper scissors to decide who wins.

The issue of hexes has taken its tole on the gvg community. Its old news. The results of its imbalance have already been felt. Its been 4-5 months during which this issue has not been addressed. Just because you have not felt the taint of its effects on the gvg meta nor been witness to it recently matters not to me sir...

As for why hexes arent on obs mode, since you rightly point out that if they were THAT overpowered everyone would still be running them.

The new ATS system has effectively taken out one of the conditions of randomness that made the hex build so dominant during the old ladder seasons. We know what maps we are going to fight on... and we can design a build in accordance to the map. Although saying that... watch the matches on burning isle... i know for a fact that [HAnD] the infamous hex guild... still run variations of their hex build on that map. Fortunately on other maps the hex build enjoys less dominance because of splits.

Yes thankfully ATS have in a roundabout way solved the dominance of the hex build because gvg is no longer about fighting on home or away maps.

However... as i said... its all far too little far too late. Significant portions of the gvg community just lost all interest in playing the game waiting for the ATS to be implemented. I wrote about recent comments being a slap in the face to the pvp community because Anet have not shown the willingness to acknowledge this problem to its full extent... it was such a big issue for gvg. Nothing was done to remedy the situation. And only now its too late do they even seem interested in seeing whats wrong.

The ATS tournies may have reduced the dominance of the hex teams. However its just a cosmetic coverup of a much more fundamental flaw in the skill balance as far as pvp goes.

Just another reminder that skill balancing still remains as infrequent and ineffective and irrelevant to the concerns of the players actually playing the game.

The same is happening with ritualist spike in heroes ascent... dont ask me to run a build that counters ritualist spike. This is not meant to be buildwars... i should not have to design a build that counters every possible gimmick build... its just impossible. We run as diverse balanced builds as we can possibly manage, as many have experienced, running balanced builds in HA under current Kill Count meta is not an easy thing to do. There are strong limitations placed onto the balanced build if it is to be successful in HA atm... the first step would be to unshackle these limitations and then to reduce the amount of gimmicks that are run.

I realise there will always be a gimmick... but when the gimmick builds are resultant from clear imbalances in the skills they are unnecessary gimmicks.

What happened to GvG is now happening to HA.

Nothing in the published update notes shows any recognition of this state of affairs.

I wouldnt be suprised if they came out and asked us to show them whats wrong with HA in a special week where lots of Anet attention is being focused on HA issues.

There is no need... it takes a few hours of observation during peak GMT play times to witness in entirety what is going on.

So you see my friend... you really should make sure you are fully aware of the issues before you make such comments.

i hope i have in some way helped to enlighten you to the issues at hand. If you require further information im sure other posters will gladly fill you in.

The search function is your friend is all i can say finally.

Lorekeeper

WildmouseX · Jun 14, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

ok im going to try put this as simple as possible.

the hex dominance took its tole on the health of gvg before the ATS were implemented. The length of time it took for the ATS to be implemented just perpetuated the dismal state of ladder based gvg. Hex builds did dominate even though you dont see this now... eF won their gold cape running a very very powerful version of the hex build which they had run throughout the season prior to the introduction of ATS.
The HAnD guild also rose to the top of the gvg ladder prior to ATS launch running a similiar hex build.

it is entirely possible to run a build that counters hexes, thats not the point. The point is... if i run a perfect counter to 1 particular build i expose myself to weakness against other builds. And this is build wars... the exact opposite of what pvp should be about. The outcome of a fight should not be decided upon ONLY by the 8 skills no your bar or the other 56 skills in the team, if this is how gw gvg works then you might aswell roll a dice at the start of the battle or play rock paper scissors to decide who wins.

The issue of hexes has taken its tole on the gvg community. Its old news. The results of its imbalance have already been felt. Its been 4-5 months during which this issue has not been addressed.
Lorekeeper

it "hasn't been addressed" over the last 4-5 month's, because it was addressed when the game first came out.... the answer is, was, and always will be the Mesmer - and if your guild is too Fin stupid to bring one to shut the necro down, you deserve to get owned by em.

the ignorant/nieve devs have already been coned into crippleing the necro because of you whiney ass, pos, pole smokeing PVP crybabies once already- it's not going to happen again just because ya'll refuse to bring a core character class into battle with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

Well then Oh Wise One,Let us know what skills that will actually win agaisnt Hex Builds.

skill inertupts - we can't hex you if you interupt our skills

Power Spike: Signet of Disruption: Leech Signet: Power Drain: Web of Disruption

skill interupts / skill denial - we can't hex you if you stop all of our skills and make them take forever to recharge

Arcane Larceny: Arcane Thievery: Blackout: Cry of Frustration: Diversion: Mistrust: Power Block (<- as a necro hexer, this one is super nasty): Psychic Distraction:

skill interupts/ energy drain's - we can't hex you if you stop all of our skills and drain all of our energy.
Power Flux: Power Leak: Price of Pride: Arcane Languor (<- another nasty one): Power Leech:

Hex removal - you want to remove hex's you say???
Shatter Hex: Hex Eater Signet (<- group removal): Inspired Hex: Revealed Hex: Expel Hexes (<-removes up to 2 hex's off 1 ally)

Hex Denial - anyone can be imune to hex's, make mes your secondary and carry this-
Hex Breaker

other stuff - stuff that doesn't fall into above catigories, but are still usefull
Arcane Conundrum - all spells take twice as long to cast. reduces how many hex's we can throw.
Frustration - same as above, + damage everytime you interupt him
Migraine - 1-3 health degeneration + 100% longer spell casting
Signet of Humility - disable targets elite skill for 1-16 seconds.

Holy cow, would you look at that - an entire class that is usually passed up in PvP, dedicated to doing exactly what you are whineing and crying about. and if you still can't bring yourself to bring along a core class character in your team, rangers are chaulk full of inerupts, and monks have quite a few hex removal skills to boot - allbeit netiher are as good as shutting down a hex necro as the mes is.

ask the hex necro what to do to shut him down compleately? - the answer is bring a mesmer - have a nice day.

__________________________________________________
(check out mouse's zodiac clearence sale http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...03#post2893103)

Bryant Again · Jun 15, 2007, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

i guess solo farming builds don't count.... because they're just plain fubar altogether?

No, because they're played in a completely different environment. A solo build will not be a viable PvE build.

Blightfire · Jun 15, 2007, 12:18 AM // 00:18

I personally would like to thank the dev teams for their many recent changes to GuildWars.

To those that are whining over the adjustments in this patch, such as warrior and ele skill updates being useless, you obviously have not played much of the game. For example, the buff of warrior's endurance could result in alot more energy based warrior builds as the one thing stopping warriors from spamming attacks has always been the lack of energy. Similarly for the buff in Dwarven Battle Stance. These are all very useful skills that you ignorantly assume to be useless.

On the other hand its a shame though, the armor cap is gonna hurt alot of solo tanking eles

Miral · Jun 15, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

No, because they're played in a completely different environment. A solo build will not be a viable PvE build.

err, last I checked, farming IS PvE... pretty much THE endgame PvE unless you can get a decent DoA group together...

oh, and on another note, I just saw a 55 Mo/D tank varesh while his 3 heroes beat her down fast enough to get masters... 4 spots open, charged 2k a person, 8k for 4 minutes of 55 tanking... ah the joys of protective spirit and mystic regeneration.

Bryant Again · Jun 15, 2007, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

err, last I checked, farming IS PvE... pretty much THE endgame PvE unless you can get a decent DoA group together...

Then I'll be more specific:

"No, because they're played in a completely different GAMING environment (think PvP). A solo build will not be a viable in a GROUP PvE build."

And where's this stuff about endgame coming from? I'm in support of farming. What the hell are you going off on??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

oh, and on another note, I just saw a 55 Mo/D tank varesh while his 3 heroes beat her down fast enough to get masters... 4 spots open, charged 2k a person, 8k for 4 minutes of 55 tanking... ah the joys of protective spirit and mystic regeneration.

If they can do that on a mission that's not the easiest mission in the whole campaign, I'll be impressed.

Chicken Ftw · Jun 15, 2007, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

it "hasn't been addressed" over the last 4-5 month's, because it was addressed when the game first came out.... the answer is, was, and always will be the Mesmer - and if your guild is too Fin stupid to bring one to shut the necro down, you deserve to get owned by em.

the ignorant/nieve devs have already been coned into crippleing the necro because of you whiney ass, pos, pole smokeing PVP crybabies once already- it's not going to happen again just because ya'll refuse to bring a core character class into battle with you.

ask the hex necro what to do to shut him down compleately? - the answer is bring a mesmer - have a nice day.

Maybe if hex heavy teams ran only a single necro and not multiple hexers, you'd have a point. As it stands, you look like a clueless idiot. A lot of top guilds do run a mesmer in their builds. Go watch HaND vs Gr on Burning Isle. Gr is running Expel Hexes on a para, a mes with Power Block, and 3 monks, two of which are using Veil (not that I agree with it, but meh). Gr loses at VoD, even with those counters in place. If it were so simple to shut down as you seem to think, they'd have won easily. Please grab a clue before posting about part of the game you don't even play.

As far as the necro being crippled goes, lots would disagree. Especially since you've so nicely generalized all PvP'ers into being crybabies, when you're the one who's been QQ'ing about your necro being ruined since the first "nerf" to SR.

Quantum Duck · Jun 15, 2007, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote: